Do you believe this?

**sup-rbeast** · May 22nd, 2007, 05:13 PM

As long as those differences are there, it's not having it both ways. The differences themselves make the distinction. It's apples and oranges.

**imported_ut1** · May 23rd, 2007, 06:09 AM

They are no different since they are written by men. Of course, I maintain that the Bible was written by men inspired by God (of course, Moses had direct conversations with God). The translations over the years have kept true to the original message, although words and phrases in our languauges don't exactly match up (for example, the Greek used four different words to describe "love" and its different forms).
Now our historical documents are supposed to say exactly what they mean ("all men are created equal" - this penned and signed by slave owners) and we're supposed to understand their words from their intent.
Yep, apples and oranges, if they grow from the same tree.

**sup-rbeast** · May 23rd, 2007, 08:27 AM

The day that the declaration and constitution are are rewritten 50 times and preached about in churches and i'm told that if i don't believe them word for word that i'm goin to hell, i'll say they are the same.

**imported_GC1** · May 23rd, 2007, 08:39 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3)What is the world that God loved? In Romans 9, you have the following "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated". So does God love the whole world, but right here is an example of someone that God hated, so how is it the whole world then?
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IMO one of the "HARD SAYINGS" of the Bible. But if John 3:16 is looked at in context maybe simple. Jesus was talking to a Jewish religious leader who believed only Jews were going to heaven and all otheres were doomed. Jesus told Nicodemus that the Gospel was not only for the Jews, but that men from every nation would come to Him, Then He make the simple, true statement that whoever believed in Him would have everlasting life.

Yet Scripture also tells us there are those God "hates", there are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, those that cannot come to Him. There are many fine lines in Scripture that exibit now only God's sovereignty in all things including salvation, but man's responsibility. For example, every man is expected and commanded to keep and obey the Law of God. or a believers command from God to "be holy as He is holy". In the same manner all men are commanded to come to Christ, yet unless the Spirit of God "make them alive" and opens their eyes to come to Jesus they never will....

**imported_GC1** · May 23rd, 2007, 08:42 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The day that the declaration and constitution are are rewritten 50 times and preached about in churches and i'm told that if i don't believe them word for word that i'm goin to hell, i'll say they are the same. </div></div>

Lol, if you ever find a church that preaches this then get up and leave. Then find a real church. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

**michael jordan** · May 23rd, 2007, 09:16 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I'm confused, I guess all I was trying to say is how in the world could I myself say I support the KJV or that it is the "best", if there is such a thing...

At first I hear, "well those were all humans talkin about KJ"

So I supply evidence of his own talking, now it's "who cares if he was a homo"

So If you got a Homo as a pastor, would you continue to go to your church, say what you want but I doubt it... </div></div>

I would not go to that church if that were the case. In ut 1's own words, the Bible condemns it.

**michael jordan** · May 23rd, 2007, 09:18 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off...I never said it was null or void, I said I felt there were much BETTER versions...

Second off I never said I had a problem with it being translated, or written by man...You continue to place words in my mouth...

I have vested lots of time studying this, because after learning some about KJ's character in a college religion class, I began to speculate...

Also, he did not simply authorize this version, he formed the members who translated it, all of whom feared him, and dare not strike a word that he wouldn't like...

Yes I agree with you that God will presserve his word, So if we both believe that then I guess the newest version on the market would be the most truthful, or he would have never let it be produced...Where does the bible teach that God will preserve his word in one 17th century book??? </div></div>

I have many translations of the Bible and I read all of them. Sometimes I will read a scripture in one translation and read the same scripture in another translation, it helps me to better understand.

**michael jordan** · May 23rd, 2007, 09:32 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R0cketer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, I've always heard and been told, that the Bible is a guide. It is through our study and our prayer that it guides us, and how it guides you and me, may be entirely different.

I'll go the most simple example I can give

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now here is just examples

1)So if someone believeth in God, they won't perish but have everlasting life. Now I believe and I keep sinning, have I stopped believing in God? Nope, so does that mean I have everlasting life?

2)So if someone doesn't believe in God, does that mean they just die and its over, not everlasting life.

3)What is the world that God loved? In Romans 9, you have the following "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated". So does God love the whole world, but right here is an example of someone that God hated, so how is it the whole world then?

Again...I'm not really asking for answers on this, just an example of how someone could study and get different meanings. </div></div>

My understanding of everlasting life. The first step to everlasting life or salvation is believing. There is another strp also and that is allowing Jesus to become our Lord. The Bible teaches in the book of James that even the Deviland his demons believe but there is no salvation for them. YOu give an example that, someone believes but they keep sinning, right. Well then the question is, do they really believe? I believe good christian people sin, but the key to this is remorse of the sin. It seems like if we are walking with God we would heed to the conviction of our hearts, have remorse, and then repent. Repentance means to turn away from and not to continue in it.

The 2nd question was if someone believes does not believe in God, does that mean that they just die and it is over? Sadly that is not true. tHE bIBLE TEACHES US TO CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM WE WILL SERVE. God is the judge so he is the one that will seperate the sheep from the goats. It is only 2 choices, Heaven or hell, I believe this.

Question 3, what is the world that od loved? He died for eveyone past, present , and future, while we were still yet sinners he chose to do this, isn't that awsome? He loved Jacob yes, he did not hate Esua, he hated the ways of Esau. God does not hate the sinner, he hates the sin. I can assure you that God hates noone, he hates sin because it seperates us from him. You are right many people get different meanings, but that is why it is important for us to really get to know God's character and who he is, and me knowing that God is all about love, then I am assured there is no hate in him for his created people.

**retiredteach** · May 23rd, 2007, 11:24 AM

Actually, God is not all about love. He does inflict wrath also. Remember Sodom. Remember what happened to Lot. Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated, even from the womb. Esau had not yet committed sin, but the Bible says that God hated him. I don't intend to get into any kind of religious argument with anyone, but read the scripture which says, "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from God and save their people.

**R0cketer** · May 23rd, 2007, 11:35 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weedeater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 2nd question was if someone believes does not believe in God, does that mean that they just die and it is over? Sadly that is not true. tHE bIBLE TEACHES US TO CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM WE WILL SERVE. God is the judge so he is the one that will seperate the sheep from the goats. It is only 2 choices, Heaven or hell, I believe this.
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You didn't take things into context as usual. The verse said (paraphrasing here) that whomsoever believeth in me should have everlasting life. If someone doesn't believe, do they have everlasting life?

Your trying to answer questions to something I posted about people having questions on even one of the most basic of Bible verses and if entire religions have questions about the meaning, are you so egotistical to think that what you think has to be right?